Quick response to Conspiracist Trash

So Sergey at holocaust controversies did a response. There's a few little nicks I can quickly respond to. He says I say mobile crematoria didn't exist, that's false, in the video I actually had a picture of one with a caption saying it's a mobile crematoria, the claim is that these things were being trundled around in Russia, along with mobile gas chambers and bone-grinding mills, in order to remove evidence of genocide. You didn't get that because your autism is such that you could understand the video is generally satire but you didn't pick up that calling Hilberg a denier by denying mobile crematoria just because he didn't mention it as part of the act.

He claims I mixed up Mauthausen and Hartheim castle, I did not, according to the holocaust conspiracy people were sent from Mauthausen to Hartheim to be killed after a psychiatrist claimed they were crazy.

He brings up the judgment itself at the first IMT, and points out that the judgment doesn't mention the crazy stuff said in the proceedings. First off, it does mention the human soap, it does mention retarded Nazi experiments, so those are at least two things I remember off the top of my head that the Nuremberg judgment does come down on which are either no longer believed by the mainstream or are in the process of no longer being believed.

But second off, okay say for example the torture cabinets or the nuclear weapons used against jews weren't mentioned in the judgment. Well, they should have. The judgment should have said "Nazis found not guilty of this, this, this, this".

But there's an optics problem for the allies doing that. Because that list would be very long, having to mention all of the false accusations that were not upheld.

And that's the point of the little #provenatnuremberg thing, to remind the viewer of all the crap that used to be part of the mainstream conspiracy.

Sergey bizarrely clings to the wansee conference, that's not worth addressing because that's the in the process of being phased out of the mainstream and the bias on this issue only goes one way, which is in favor of the extermination conspiracy, and the revision only goes one way, and that is in the direction of reducing the scope of the ever-shrinking holocaust.

His response just goes on and on but look, I'm not going down into a million rabbit holes, because we all know how this works. Some committed skeptic can respond to every little thing you say, then you can respond to that, and he can respond to that, and then you can go round and round in your little fun house for another 80 years. You're not dragging me into your little funhouse. You know more holocaust factoids than me, because it's all you do. Congratulations.

Things that are mainstream today would have been considered denial 40 years ago. The western camps used to be extermination centers, and more recently, Auschwitz main camp used to be an extermination center and now that's moved to Auschwitz-Birkenau, which conveniently doesn't exist, and Majdanek used to be an extermination center.

Sergey talks about the existence of unused gas chambers, look, Ellis island had gas chambers. Lots of places had gas chambers. Dachau's gas chambers had windows. He says "we don't know if they were used on people" okay that's true in the same sense that we don't know if the Ellis Island gas chambers were used on people.

We don't know if you're a pedophile. Lots of things "we don't know".

Now what Sergey does, and this is common of the conspiracists, is to say Nuremberg doesn't matter, read the later historians. Oh this witness is making stuff up, but this witness is real. And so what you're doing is a kind of make-your-own holocaust.

Look, what if someone wanted to deny Sherman's march to the sea? How would you respond to that? Well you're bring up the direct order from Lincoln to sherman and you could reference US and Confederate military reports that it happened, you could reference reports of property damage. You wouldn't have to invent secret coded language, you wouldn't have to rely on confessions after interrogations. Because things that happen don't need giant tomes committed to proving they in fact happened.

This is why I said in the video - say someone claimed to be attacked by a dragon, you say that's impossible dragons don't exist, then he says he was attacked by a bear, well that means he wasn't attacked at all.

And at root that's what you're doing. You're trudging through the muck of lies, and pulling out plausible stories and documents and testimony to weave together an extermination program that doesn't violate the laws of physics. But the basis of your rejection of all the obviously false tales are simply that those things couldn't have possibly happened, and mainstream historians who believe the conspiracy just keep what they want.

And it's constantly changing. It used to be in the west, then it moved east and so now it's only in the Soviet-occupied territories. Then Auschwitz main camp stopped having mass killings and it's only in Birkenau, then Majdanek became just a labor camp.

Another point of perspective is that the stories about mass murder and gas chambers were bandied about against the Austro-Hungarian Empire and Imperial Germany in WW1. The same corpse factory stories used against the Nazis were used previously against the Kaiser.

Before that, 6 million Jews were killed, or something happened to them in Czarist Russia. And authors of the readers digest knew that 6 million Jews would be killed in Nazi Germany before the war even began. There's a good skeptic video documenting how the holocaust story had been written before the war even began.

So we don't need to go down your rabbit holes, we don't need to calculate how many bodies an oven could burn in a day, or how at Treblinka they dug up 100,000 or whatever corpses and burned them and destroyed the bones. We don't need to play any of these games because we know what the shot was before the war even began.

And if you want to say "where did all the Jews go", well there were about 9 million Jews in Nazi-occupied Europe, assuming none of them fled when the Nazis took over - that's another thing, there's a real chance that there weren't even as many Jews in Nazi-occupied Europe as the conspiracists claim were killed - but from 9 million, and based on their concentration in Poland and eastern europe we'd predict that about a million would die just from the war. From collateral damage, partisans, being conscripted, food shortages and disease.

So just being at that place and time in history, we would expect about a million to die. I figured based on the death rate in Poland in WW2, about 1.08 million. If the death of Jews is less than that, then they actually had it easier than the peoples in the regions that both the Soviet and German armies crossed over.

As for population numbers, one thing the conspiracists do is fixate on attacking skeptic arguments about how the Jewish population today is the same proportion as it was before the war, or the stuff about the Almanac or whatever. But look, when you get into that stuff, all you're saying is "the data on the number of Jews is indeterminate". The population numbers is not some argument for you to refute - it's a case you have to make. You're the conspiracist, you show it.

Because say you have Jews that flee Nazi Germany before the war, they flee Poland to the USSR, they go to the middle east, they go to the US, some Jews renounce their Judaism to avoid being sent to what they think might be extermination camps based on rumors at the time. How many, who knows...

And all these estimates of Jewish population - is that Jews by religion or Jews by lineage? They vary, and they're all over the place. Some population records on Jews come from the Soviet Union, which is inherently suspect, so I don't have to say anything about missing Jews because the record keeping on the global Jewish population was such a mess that you can't even show there were any missing Jews.

The World Alamanac reported no decline in Jewish numbers in 1948, then a big dip in 1949, and that's supposedly because the 1948 numbers were based on an extrapolation of the 1939 numbers. Who knows, maybe they were told to get with the program and jury-rigged the numbers down in 1949, or maybe they were just being stupid and kept using the 1939 estimate as the basis of the 1948 estimate, and then once a proper global survey was done they found a decline. They're going to say things, we'll never know. And even if they found a decline, well we'd expect about a million deaths just from being in that war zone, and maybe some were scattered to the four winds and didn't get counted, maybe some decided being Jewish wasn't worth it and stopped saying they were Jews, maybe some went to America, the USSR, or wherever and the record-keepers weren't able to keep track. Who knows... not you!

Whatever, it's shit on the board, you can't say anything on that point because you don't know how many Jews there were then, and I'm skeptical if you can even say that today. Jews aren't like black Africans, or Chinese people who speak Chinese, where there's some hard marker of what group of people they are. A Jew can just say he's not Jewish, or a survey can be on religion and a Jew can say he's an atheist. And some number of Jews have something in their religion against being counted.

Whatever. That's not a point in your favor. Because you're the one making the accusation. You need, among other things, census demographic proof of a population decline. The fact that the data is messy doesn't make your case better, it makes it worse.

And these high level things are why it probably didn't happen. Not because of some investigation of the mechanics of the gas chambers at Belzec. The reasons we can dismiss the holocaust conspiracy are for multiple reasons that don't get into "the funhouse".

1. The western press had decided that Nazi Germany was going to commit a genocide before the war even began.

2. These same media amalgams pushed bogus genocide claims both before and after the war, including against Germany itself.

3. The genocide was determined by victorious powers over a defeated country in a sham trial.

4. Anyone who later said such genocides did not occur - both immediately after the war, and to this very day - are imprisoned or otherwise sanctioned for doing so.

5. The initial establishment of the genocide was done at nuremberg, where demonstrably false and cartoonishly stupid claims were made, though the final judgment was sanitized. Unlike a proper trial, instead of saying "the nazis did NOT use atomic bombs to kill Jews", they acted as if such accusations were never made, and cherry-picked the accusations that weren't impossible and said those had been established.

6. The camps in the western zone were initially claimed to be no different from the eastern camps. Later western investigators determined they were not part of a genocide program, but we must still believe that the camps in the area where the USSR controlled all the evidence were where the genocides actually took place.

7. The total kill count never goes down even as the number of "death camps" get picked off over the decades. This is evidence that the holocaust isn't actually a serious historical thing, but a political thing invented by non-historians; conspiracy theorist historians are then committed to upholding some shred of the Nuremberg verdict and weave the evidence for it after the fact.

8. To believe the extermination conspiracy, you need to either do two things: blindly believe the retarded basic narrative, which is what most people do, or delve into tomes that make all sorts of connections from cherry-picked documents and code words. Conspiracy theorist is the correct word for you, because it's not some normal historical event with clear and obvious evidence - the evidence is hidden, suppressed, in code, you have to connect train records here with warehouse records there etc.

In short, if all the stuff you say about the holocaust is true, why isn't it just like any other historical fact? Of course it COULD be this grand conspiracy in the way you claim, but in combination with the surrounding factors laid out above, the chance that there was an organized mass genocide of Jews is basically zero.

Comments

  1. Replies
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  2. The modern western ideological landscape is defined by the presupposition of the Holocaust. For someone to attack that foundation, regardless of merit, is to attack the credibility and competence of anyone who accepted it as truth. This is one part, particularly the academic part.
    The other side is the emotional angle, which has two particular camps. The Jewish view is quite self evident, in that if the Holocaust didn’t happen, or even wasn’t deliberate, then the Jews themselves are guilty of persecuting the Germans. By falsely subjecting them to the same persecution they allegedly faced under soviet and western rule, and by extension, everything Hitler said and did would have been true and justified. This second view is compounded in that the Holocaust elicits a strong emotional response, and people have become attached to it for exactly that reason. People don’t want works like Schindler’s List to be fiction because it invalidates their emotional response at the time.

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  3. In fourth grade I went to my first (school sponsored) holocaust museum. At the end, all the (10 year old students) were told that holocaust denial was on the rise, and shown pictures of piles of emaciated corpses. This is not normal.

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  4. Debunked: http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2018/04/debunking-youtube-denial.html#fresponse1

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    1. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    2. how can one person be caught in a lie, and then lie more about it? Sergei, of course, he would.

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  5. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  6. Jews actually have a long history of exaggerating and sometimes outright fabricating atrocities against themselves, both for maintaining group cohesion and for generating sympathy for themselves among gullible host peoples.

    There was a cossack uprising in 17th Century Ukraine waged against the Polish nobility. Jews were caught up in the violence due to their high status among the Poles. For centuries Jews claimed that half a million to one million of them were killed by the Ukrainian cossacks, even though they didn't even have those numbers in the regions where the rebellion was wage.

    Today most historians think the Jewish death toll was around 50,000 or so, and some estimates even hover around 6,000-10,000.

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    Replies
    1. "For centuries Jews claimed that half a million to one million"

      That's a lie, The closest thing is that Edward Flannery, writing in The Anguish of the Jews: Twenty-Three Centuries of Antisemitism, first published in 1965, gives figures of 100,000 to 500,000, stating "Many historians consider the second figure exaggerated and the first a minimum"
      The figure of 100,000 dead is still acceptable by most historians.

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  7. Talk about the nazi zionist connection and the selection theory. Supposedly influential zionists entered the camps and handpicked healthy jews to settle Palestine with.

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  8. >There's a good skeptic video documenting how the holocaust story had been written before the war even began.
    What video are u talking about?

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  9. This is absurd. It’s like reading an account of a school shooter or a Synogogue bomber. I could leave a well thought out reply, but what’s the point. As you yourself say, you’re not going to engage in an intelligent discourse, with the person who wrote the article, or anybody else. Because that’s inherently contrary to believing something like this. So I guess I’ll just say:

    1)You’re incredibly misguided
    2)I’m sure your parents are proud of you being a Holocaust Denier
    And 3)...idk. I just kind of hope you’ll be okay, and that you won’t believe in this sort of thing for much longer

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  10. Good work Ryan! "Truthers" never say the government is becoming like the Bolshevik commies but instead they talk trash about Germany. All synonyms to evil are relegated to the inhuman bolsheviks, of which the disease in the western world comes from that Marxist, Khazarian root. Hitler was right about many things and we are coming to those same conclusions as we approach Weimar republic levels.

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    Replies
    1. Too bad you think debunked trash is good work. http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2018/04/debunking-youtube-denial.html#fresponse1

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  11. Can you help us out and explain how the Germans managed to fight a war on two fronts & still managed to cremate thousands of bodies on a daily basis for 3 straight years with 1940s technology, yet the Italians cannot deal with hundreds with 2020 technology? https://www.voanews.com/science-health/coronavirus-outbreak/surprising-reason-northern-italy-crematoria-are-overwhelmed

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    1. Daily basis is your fantasy, about 600,000 or so were cremated in the German crematoria, of which there were more in Auschwitz than in some smaller countries today. The Auschwitz crematoria would have handled the whole Italian load in several days.

      The trick was simple - abandonment of any civilian crematoria rules.

      http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2017/09/short-debunking-of-steven-andersons.html#cremationexplained

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    2. Still doesn't make sense how they could burn bodies this fast. They aren't keeping upS

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  12. eh all I know is that my great grandparents had a story about an old childless jewish couple that was ratted out by some collaborator and then taken away by the SS or some other local german unit.
    Grandmas uncle was a traveling man so he spoke german and the soldiers(who were looking for the house with the jews ... because it was in a fucking arse of the civilization) told him that the only reason they were there was because someone reported that there were jews living there so they had to investigate. This happened in Slovakia.
    There was an anti jewish agenda ... but the numbers are bogus ... also the jews in camps most likely died of hunger thanks to the allies bombing supply lines ... who will you feed 1st ? the labor camp people or your regular citizens ...
    also love how they conviniently ignore the gypsies and other non-germanic peoples that died in the "jewish" holocaust.

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  13. For some reason, Serfag continues to keep saying that you denied it while posting evidence that you did not deny those instances. Well, what a shit load of fuck as AVGN would put it. Your video was great and Serfag is just a Jew who can't handle people questioning the Holocaust and it's historical narratives. I don't have an opinion on this topic but there are certainly some narratives about it since it's illegal to discuss it in some nations.

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